H-ART TO H-ART INTERVIEWS
Meet expert circular weaver Emily Nicolaides, founder of the Year of the Circles weaving program, who talks about the art of weaving and her journey to realising her dream.
I have been following Emily on instagram for some time now. Love all her work, especially her signature open centre weaves, and even more, I love the vibrant, positive energy she exudes. Recently, what captured my attention was some of her very raw and honest shares in her stories and posts about poignant topics that we come across in the arts industry.
Alexia: So I thought why don’t we start with a few quick questions to get to know you
1 Morning or evening person?
Emily: Evening.
2 Night in or night out?
Night in.
3 Lots of friends or few close friends?
Lots of friends.
4 Time to yourself or time spent with others?
Time spent with others.
5 Countryside, seaside or city seaside?
Seaside, of course!
6 Hot climate or cold climate?
Hot climate.
7 Books or films?
Mm, both!
8 Rice or pasta?
Uh, rice.
9 Tea or coffee?
Uh, both! Coffee in the morning and tea in the afternoon and evening.
Completely agree with you!
Did you study art at college or university or/ and school?
Yeah, accidentally, as when I graduated from high school, I was planning on getting a degree in industrial design. And, as a stepping stone, I started in a community college. So that's like a two year college here in the U.S. and I was getting all of my art credits out of the way so that I could go to the industrial design programme, and I just loved it so much. It was like such a natural fit. It was the easiest A's I ever got in my school journey, and I was like, “Okay, I think that means something”. And so I just kept going with it. I ended up switching to studying Studio Art and Art History and, it just was a perfect fit!
And did you ever worry about how you would make money with an art degree?
I was very concerned with what I was going to do. My parents were actually very encouraging and I don't think they were so worried about me. If they were, they didn't let me know. They knew I was really creative. I didn't take art classes or anything before college, so that wasn't something that I had imagined doing for a long time. It was just something that I knew I was particularly gifted in and I knew that I wanted to pursue that. And it was something that was deep inside my gut. And so that's what kept me going, but I was really concerned with how I was going to make money and any opportunity I had to ask an artist, I was like, “Okay, so like, how do you pay your bills? How do you make money? What are you doing?” And, yeah, I mean, I asked EVERYBODY, um, I'm not kidding!
And a lot of people found that super annoying, and a little bit of like, “Oh, why is she so interested in the money aspect?” I mean, I don't know if this is just the story I'm telling myself, but it felt like when I would ask these questions about money, a lot of artists were like, “Well, that's not what this is about.” And for me, I felt, well, you know, if you want this to be a sustainable practice, there has to be some element of money and figuring out how that's gonna work. So yeah, I was so stressed about it, honestly. And especially when I was getting ready to graduate, I just didn't know. I didn't know what I was going to do, but I trusted I would figure it out eventually.
““And the first time I sat down at a loom, it was just like something clicked. I just knew it was for me. And so I continued to do that.””
So can you talk a bit more about these transformative experiences that you mentioned? Were they like educational trips?
Sure! So, I went to a school called Penland a few times. Um, it's not like a university, it's more like a school for adults and artists come from all over the world to teach workshops there in craft medium. So anything from like, I was obviously going for weaving, but you could also take glassblowing or metal working or, you know, that kind of thing. And so another one I went to was Arrowmont, which is like a similar kind of school. These schools kind of developed, there's quite a few of them along the East coast in the Appalachian mountains, and the schools were started to teach women how to make an income for their families through weaving and through basket making. And now they've transformed into these amazing institutions that people travel worldwide to come and learn. And so it's a pretty cool thing, but yeah, I mean, you know, to go to a place like that for two weeks or a month and a half or two months, you know, you kind of have to quit everything to go. And so, yeah, I was doing a lot of things like that. I also took a lot of time to just travel. I spent a summer going on a road trip by myself, just all over the country and staying with friends and looking at art and learning as much as I could. There was also a month that I spent working on a farm and learning about that kind of thing. And that really informed a lot of my work at the time.
I mean, to me, it sounds like you really knew what you wanted. Maybe you didn't know exactly what was going to happen or how it was going to happen, but you really put in the work to get to wherever it is that you were going. Which brings me to an important topic you have touched on, on your instagram, which is people asking you for free tutorials. As you have already explained why you choose not to teach for free very clearly, I will direct people to your instagram post to watch this themselves.
Yeah. All the time I get those questions, they're like, where's your YouTube channel? Or, you know, do you have a free workshop or can you just show me how to do this or answer all of my questions in your DMS? And I'm like, what?… but yeah, people ask, so, I replied.
And another important topic that comes up a lot in the instagram world is copying. Often I will be scrolling and I'll see people accusing each other but coming across your post, what stood out was your headlines and just how you took the time to explain your thinking and beliefs so clearly. And especially how you explained the boundaries and actually listed questions for people to ask themselves to check themselves, if in doubt!
Would you say that all your education and all these years of making are how you've come into your own style?
Yeah, for me, it's been a really slow burn. I needed a period of experimenting and the first thing I wove, it was really special to me, but it wasn't my voice yet. And it took me quite a bit of time to come to that place where I could weave something that truly felt like my own. And so I don't think it's going to take everybody, you know, seven, eight, however many years to figure that out. But it did for me. And some people, it may take longer. And when I wrote those posts about copying, I really wanted to do it from a place that was constructive and not shaming. Because I've seen other people getting called out and I've heard other people's stories about, copying in the fibre art world. And I've seen a lot of criticism, but there's no “next steps”; there's no explanation. And of course there are cases where people are copying intentionally and maliciously, but in general, in fibre arts right now, in this time, I don't think that's the case most of the time. So it's like, if you don't know the boundaries and you don't know the rules and you didn't come from an art background, you just need somebody to tell you in a kind and loving way with action steps of how you can avoid it.
Do you teach open centre weaving in the Year of the Circles too?
Yes, so most of the projects are open circle and actually, the best place to start is the open centre workshop that I have, that just covers that technique. And then also shares a little bit about my background and where that came from. But I find when you're weaving, different patterns and techniques that are like very traditional to weaving, but not to circular weaving, I find they're a lot easier to achieve in like a really clean professional way with an open centre. Now you can use them for closed centre, circular, weavings, but having that kind of starting point, to the weaving, that's just a really clean circle, makes it much easier to weave some more advanced techniques in a circle.
You started by teaching friends. Did you ever imagine that it would go from there to designing a full online course and do you know? Did you ever have moments where you thought, “I cannot do this! I’m just gonna quit!”?
No, I did not imagine that.
And yeah, I mean, I did not imagine it turning into what it has and I've absolutely had workshops that nobody signed up for. I think that's a part of getting started. And I think a part of that too, was figuring out, how much I could offer in my city because I taught hundreds of students before I even went to the Year of Circles because I was teaching so many workshops, through local arts centres and doing pop-up workshops at like vintage shops and things like that. And I really saturated the market with circular weaving workshops here because I taught so many. And so that was one of the lessons I learned, you know, what the right balance was for the size of my city and the marketing I was able to do for those workshop. Because I got to a point where I was trying to teach essentially too many a month and there weren't enough students to take them. And so that was a really important lesson, that was discouraging at times, but you got to just pick yourself up and keep going. There've been lots of points where I wanted to quit though. I'll be honest.
““And so that can be discouraging, but you know, I think it’s like, does your desire to make a living as an artist outweigh any sort of struggles that come along with it too. And for me they have.” ”
I love that! Which brings me to my next questions, are you organised? Do you like setting goals and achieving? Are you more of a proactive person or a procrastinator?
I'm a big goal setter. I revisit my goals every single day. I have my planner and every year I set goals for the year, I set goals for the quarter and then I break it down every month, I break it down every week and by day. So I'm really big on goals. That really is what guides me day to day and what I'm trying to get done. And the more work I have in my business, I'm really thankful for that because it helps keep me on task. But at the same time, I totally procrastinate. I have been known to do that. I think that is something that creatives find a lot more. And I don't worry so much about it though, because if I'm into a project and I know I have a deadline, I'm ready to get it done. And I'm honestly at my best when I'm working out on a deadline and I like those rhythms of like working really hard and then just resting and being quiet and not thinking about work. And so, that works for me. The challenge is doing that and not burning out. And so day to day, I have activities built into my day that helps support my creativity and help me not burn out. So I'm a big journaler. That was something that I wanted to get into for a long time and just, I couldn't really get a rhythm with it. And last year I got really serious about journaling and I do it every day. It's how I start my workday. I look at my schedule for the day. I look at my goals for the day. Then I journal. I also meditate pretty much every day as well. And having these little moments where I can kind of carve out space to dump my brain, or just like, be really quiet, like help make these rhythms of working really hard and resting a lot more achievable and sustainable.
So my next question was what does a day in the life of Emily look like? So you just told us, you start with journaling and checking your goals.
I have a studio outside of my house. I find that works better for me. I've had periods of working from home, like when Covid hit and all of that, where I worked from home for three months and, it makes the boundaries between work and home life more difficult. And so I have a studio outside of my house. I've been here for about four years now and I love working around other people. So generally after I do like my morning routine, I'll either work from home for a bit and do computer tasks or I'll come into the studio; every day is different, which I love! I try to make at least one hour of weaving happen every day, but you know, like you were mentioning before, it's like, there's so many other parts of this job. It's honestly amazing how little I weave as a professional weaver. I always imagined that it would at least be 90% of my time. And, you know, until this point, it's more like 50% of the time that I'm weaving. But even if I'm working on computer tasks all day, I try to make at least an hour of weaving time. Whether it's for a specific project or a client or just something I'm doing for fun. So, that helps a lot as well, but yeah, every day is really different. Sometimes I'm done by five, sometimes I'm done by nine; it really depends on what's going on.
What is your creative process? Like you said, you like to get whatever's on your mind out through journaling, is there a creative ritual that you do, or do you just start weaving and let the ideas comes to you? How do you get inspired?
So I always start a weaving with the colour palette. I always start with colour first. What kind of colours do I want to work with? Is this for a client? Do they want specific colours? If this is something for a collection I'm launching, what are the colours in the collection? Or am I just trying something totally different? But I always start with like a yarn colour palette. So I'll bring things together, look at it, I'll photograph the yarn together and seeing it in a photo, really helps me imagine it more in a weaving. And so at that point, I'll like take things away or add things in. But once I have a colour palette in mind, I generally have some sort of design I want to do.
So I have patterns that I go back to over and over again. Or I’ll at least know generally what pattern I want to do, but my process is really intuitive. So like, even when I'm doing custom work, I don't do sketches. They don't work for me. I find that when I have a sketch that I try to stick to, it never turns out well. I think for me, it's like forcing it too much. And it's like, if I allow the piece, the colours and my gut to show me what needs to happen, it turns out a lot better. And the best work I've ever made, is pieces where I just let my gut tell me what to do next, and took it moment by moment. And so, especially when I'm weaving larger pieces, when I have a commission or something that's bigger, I'm not spending like eight hours a day every day on it until it's done. I'm just putting in an hour here, two hours here, an afternoon here, because I need a lot of space to process the colours that I'm working with and where the piece going. I need a lot of space around my weaving time to make really thoughtful decisions. And so it's a very long process, but I like it like that. I don't like to force things, when I force things they're not good. So I have to let it kind of evolve naturally.
And I think part of that rhythm, I got into it because before I was full time, when I was working part-time jobs and I was still weaving, I got into a really good routine of weaving 30 minutes a day. And, I wove a lot of pieces, like larger pieces over the course of six, nine, twelve months, in thirty minute increments and seeing that kind of progress, or being able to look back on that progress and see what I accomplished with such little amounts of time, was really encouraging and really informs what I'm doing now. As far as like my process goes, I think some people can sit down and just do a piece from start to finish, but I need a lot of space. I need time. I need to think, I need to meditate on it. Sometimes I wake up in the morning with the ideas of like, what needs to happen next, and I just needed a really good night's sleep to make that decision.
That sounds incredible to me! To have such discipline and patience and commitment to do something thirty minutes every day and just see it grow; I think there's something about that as well. Isn't there?
Yeah, and at the time where I was starting this 30 minutes a day thing, I had a couple of part-time jobs and I was working a lot. But I knew that I was working towards becoming a full-time artist, I still didn't know how to do it yet, but I knew that whatever I was doing, I just needed to keep weaving and I would eventually figure it out. And, so, you know, I would wake up early to get that 30 minutes in, I would go to bed late to get that 30 minutes in. And for one, I learned a lot of discipline doing that, and that's a really helpful skill to know, just for everybody. But most importantly, every day it was a reminder that I am an artist and that I am a weaver and that I am working towards something good. And so I wouldn't get down on myself as much that I wasn't where I wanted to be yet. You know, in my day-to-day work and the work I was doing for other people, I was working at the non-profit and a gallery at the time, and it wasn't what I wanted to be doing, and it just gave me so much courage to keep going, to have that routine and to have that daily reminder that I am an artist,
It sounds to me, having spoken to you in this last 45 minutes, that you've had very strong core beliefs from a young age and I heard you saying a lot that, “you trust your gut”. And in my own experience, I had to reach a certain age, to find myself and learn how to do that. Whereas from a young age, you seem to have had that trust in yourself despite not knowing where you were going or what you were going to do, you had enough faith and confidence in yourself and your skills to know that just by having commitment and discipline, you were going to get somewhere maybe. I mean, is it that? Did you know you were going to get somewhere or is it just that you were happy in the moment doing what you love?
Yeah, you know, I think making my art was where I first learned to trust myself and that wasn't something that I felt in other parts of my life. And so having that experience and having that one area where I knew that something was going to happen, even if I didn't know what it was, that has just informed the rest of my life and has given me so much more confidence and, you know, in decisions I make in my personal life and in many other ways. And so I definitely didn't start out being so in touch with my gut and what I wanted, but through becoming the artist that I am today, I've learned it a little bit at a time and I've gained that confidence and I've gained that practice. And it took a long time. I mean, honestly, like it really, it wasn't like an overnight thing. It's really been a slow build up to that. And the other part too. There was a point where I stopped traveling quite as much, and I settled down in my city. I was still working a lot, and that's when I started taking the workshops, and I really went through a phase of being very into personal development and reading all the books that I could and listening to podcasts and exploring that. And so that really helped me have more tools at my disposal to have a strong core. And so that's honestly a newer experience for me. And that has also been quite a journey along with my creativity that, you know, I don't know that I would have explored if it wasn't for wanting to honour my creative self. But anyway, I'm glad I did.
What a beautiful thing to say, “honouring your creative self”! You truly are glowing and it really shines through!
Thank you! (smiles)
So can I just ask, because you said you don't like restricting yourself. So what if someone comes in and says, “I want a green piece” and green is your worst color, can you do it? Do you do it?
Well, you know, I don't say no to any colors. I really don't. But you know, if somebody comes to me and they want something that is not my aesthetic, that's not a circle or not a round piece or, something outside of my wheelhouse, I do say no. And, I find that the people who come to me for custom work, they want something that is in my voice and the clients that I work with, give me a lot of freedom to explore that. And they trust me to do that. So if I'm talking to somebody and I don't think they're going to trust me to make something really beautiful, then I say, no.
Is there anything you would like to talk about that I didn't touch on?
Um, well let me think. I mean, if anyone who's watching this or reading this later is looking to learn circular weaving. I would love to teach you! I have my Year of Circles weaving program. That's a very in depth program for circular weaving. There's more than 30 techniques that we cover in there from a couple of different ways to start your pieces, a few different ways to finish your pieces and then lots of techniques in the middle. If you're just starting out and you kind of want to dip your toe into the world of circular weaving, I have my open centre workshop. It's like about an hour and 10 minutes. It's very short and it's a great way to kind of try out open center, circular weaving without like having to commit to a full program. So I recommend starting there for most people.
Is the Year of Circles a monthly subscription?
So, it’s set up like a Netflix subscription. It's not like you're paying for the month, you get access to the whole program with that monthly payment; you get access to everything while you're paying for it. And the reason why I do it that way is because people come in with lots of different skill levels and I hate to make people wait for new information. You know, everybody has different amount of time that they can put into it. So if you come in and you're a total beginner you can start with month one at the very beginning. That's the most basic. And as you work through the months, the projects get more advanced. However, if you come in with more experience and you want to jump in to the more advanced techniques, I wanted to make it really easy for you to do that for you to start wherever you're comfortable. And there's a video at the beginning that walks you through where to start depending on your skill level. But that's why I have it set up like that.
Yes and I would definitely want to join! With round weaving, I also initially thought there was just those one or two techniques I had found tutorials for on YouTube but seeing all the different techniques in your work, I got really excited. And I believe that learning a new technique helps you grow. It’s not to say I too will become an expert weaver but maybe I could make a macramé wall hanging and add a weave into it.
Absolutely! I mean, that's the thing, especially in fibre arts, it all informs each other and you can use quilting and embroidery and weaving, all in the same piece. And so the more information you have to draw on, the better your work gets, the more things you have to choose from, as you're developing your voice as an artist. And so it's even if you do the Year of Circles and you don't do circular weaving forever, you still learned all of these techniques that you can use in other work.
““And I’d rather have the hard times doing what I love than to do something else.””
Just out of curiosity, have you ever gotten your husband to weave?
Um, no. I've never gotten him to. It's really funny. Cause I'm a weaver, I have really fine motor skills and he does not at all! That is not his thing. It's funny, as he's a musician, he's a classical guitarist and I’ve shown him but yeah, I don't know. You would think there would be a lot of common skills between weaving and, you know, doing all the crazy things on the guitar, but um, yeah, no, he's not into it. He likes to look at it. (laughs)
It was really, really lovely talking to you. Thank you.
This was really fun! Thank you so much for asking me.
Oh, you're so lovely! And do you know what, thank you so much because it really helped me speaking to you today. I was feeling so deflated, honestly, and it's been very inspiring to see how hard you have worked. It’s really admirable, and well done!
Well, thank you. I'm so glad that helped, and I hope that it helps some other people as well. It can be such a discouraging journey and it helps me to hear other people's stories. So I'm happy to share mine. Thank you and it was so great to meet you! This was great.
10 Cook, takeaway or eat out?
Um, I enjoy all of them, but I'm going to say cook.
11 Dogs or cats?
Dogs.
Do you have a dog?
No, I have a cat. (both laugh)
Is it your partner's cat?
It's my husband's cat. He's had him for many, many years. So he's my step son. We get on fine. It's my first cat experience. And, um, yeah, it's interesting. They're very interesting. I like dogs because they love you no matter what!
12 Play it safe or be daring?
Be daring.
13 Lead or follow?
Lead!
14 Work or play?
Well, my work is play, so I'll say play.
15 Teaching or learning?
Um, I think first learning.
16 Love or money?
Love. Yeah.
17 Share your problems or keep them to yourself?
Um, share. Share my problems with a few people.
The aim of H-art to H-art interviews is to give inspiration to new artists who are trying to make it work by just as you said, making their play, their work. And I think a lot of us do our craft or arts on the side, but we all, would love to make it our main job. Growing up, when I said I wanted to do art, I was met with, “So you're going to become a starving artist?” I felt constantly discouraged. Nowadays, thankfully, there's a lot more people doing what they love. There's a lot more people making their art, their work. And for me, I have found it as an opportunity to go after what it is that I want finally.
So I wanted to find out, how did you take that step?
How did you make it happen?
And how long it took.
First of all, what do you call yourself? An artist, fibre artist? How do you identify yourself?
Yeah, I identify as an artist and weaver, but artist first.
I've been making art intentionally for about 11 years now, 12 maybe. And I've been weaving since 2013. When I found weaving, that was it. I had moments doing embroidery and quilting and other kinds of fibre arts, but with weaving, I immediately knew that was how I wanted to express my artistic voice, through cloth.
So when you graduated, what did you do next?
As soon as I graduated, literally a week and a half later, I took my first weaving workshop and I had never done any sort of weaving. I had grown up doing knitting and crocheting and sewing pillows and, I loved project runway, so I was interested in fashion. So I very much had grown up around textiles, but I didn't think that could be a job or even art or a profession or anything. But yeah, the first thing I did, was I took a weaving workshop. It was two weeks long. And the first time I sat down at a loom, it was just like something clicked. I just like knew it was for me. And so I continued to do that. And, I lived at home for a few years and I worked crazy hours when I was at home, like seven days a week, saving all my money so that I could go to craft schools and invest in my weaving education and, travel and kind of explore what I wanted to do.
So I was in this rhythm for several years after school, where I was working really hard, doing things I didn't care about. I was a barista and I screen printed t-shirts and I worked retail jobs and just kind of did whatever was flexible that I knew I wouldn't feel bad when I quit to go travel somewhere and learn something. And so it was like these periods of like working really hard, saving all of my money, and then going off and having these like amazing creative transformative experiences. And I really, really credit that time of my life and getting me to the point where I am now. And really taking advantage of that time where I could live at home. I didn't have to pay rent, and I could invest everything I was making into my creativity.
Exactly! I completely agree!I think your words were, “If you can’t explain how your work is different, then don’t sell it”. Do you wanna speak about that?
Yeah. You know, I think right now in particular with so many of us taking the time to reflect on what we want and what we've been doing in our lives, like just with the pandemic, it's a very introspective time for a lot of us. And a lot of people are finding, like yourself, that you want to start a weaving business. You want to like be able to support yourself with your art. And that is a really wonderful thing, but there are lots and lots of people coming into fibre art right now that maybe we weren't seeing quite as much before the pandemic. So we're seeing a lot of very similar things because when you're just getting started, you have this much knowledge to draw on and you don't know what you don't know; you don't know necessarily coming into fibre art, that there's thousands and thousands of techniques.
And so we're seeing a lot of very similar work from lots of different people from all over the world and that's okay. But my hope with that post was to push people, to keep lookin for ways to make their art unique and different. And you really need to tangibly be able to explain how your work is different. To defend yourself with somebody who does accuse you of copying, but also just for yourself, so that you can kind of pick up on these nuances and what you're making that is your voice and makes your work truly unique. You know, if you keep using the same techniques or the same colour combination together, is that something new that you're offering and how can you continue using that, if it's something that you really love to do or that you really find satisfying in your work?
I agree and from my own experience, I have learned that you need the basics and you need to explore all different types of techniques and medium as well, because otherwise, how will you know, what you really like?
True. And like, I don't want to discourage anyone from pursuing this because it's really, really powerful when we step into our true selves and are able to express ourselves through the art medium. And I think collectively this is a really good thing for the world to have more people wanting to authentically express themselves. And so it takes a bit of work to get to that point for a lot of us, not for everybody, but for a lot of us. And you know, I want to continue seeing people coming to fibre arts specifically because I mean, fibre art hasn't been seen as, a fine art or a high art really ever. We have more and more instances of that now specifically in the 20th century and beyond, but to have more people approaching fibre art as a fine art medium, and trying to get that into people's homes, through sales, that's a really good thing for fibre art in general. And so I think the more we all keep pushing and the more we all keep growing, the more we get to further what fibre art is and what it means, and the more fibre art we get to see out in the world. And that's what I want. So that's what I'm all about. That's a big part of why I teach as well.
Speaking about teaching, how long have you been teaching? How long have your online courses been running?
So I've been teaching about four years and I started by teaching circular weaving workshops in my living room to my friends. They really got me started. And from there I started teaching at local arts centres and it's just grown from there. And since I started teaching the workshops in my living room, I had people from Instagram asking me to teach online. And, at the time when I first started teaching, I had some other jobs and it just wasn't the right time for me yet. I also needed to get some more practice in. So when I went full time with weaving in May of 2019, I was like, all right. One of my plans for becoming a full-time artist was that I needed to figure out some sort of online way to teach. And so that's when I started kind of experimenting with that.
And so there were a few versions before the Year of Circles, but I launched the Year of Circles in November of 2019. And so yeah, this November will be two years, but I spent the first year of that building out the program, and building out 12 different designs that I felt like were really foundational techniques in circular weaving that can be used in an unlimited number of ways, but I wanted to cover techniques that felt really foundational to the media. And so once I had that all built out, it's just ongoing and people are joining all the time now and getting started. But yeah, that's a little bit about how that started.
““And so I think the more we all keep pushing and the more we all keep growing, the more we get to further what fibre art is and what it means, and the more fibre art we get to see out in the world. And that’s what I want. So that’s what I’m all about. That’s a big part of why I teach as well.””
You know, I was feeling a little bit deflated yesterday, and I felt this interview came at the perfect time! Sometimes I just feel like I’m working so hard, not just with making but also then I have to photograph it and promote it on social media; making just isn't enough. You need to photograph it well, write a catchy caption. And often I feel like, “Oh my brain's fried!” How do you deal with that? Do you get help? Do you teach yourself all these skills that are necessary?
No. I mean, you know, I think there's things that we're naturally a little bit better at. And so for those kinds of things, like obviously the weaving is a skill set and I really enjoy writing. And so I naturally had some writing skills already, but copywriting is a totally different thing. And so yeah, I've listened to podcasts and done courses and memberships and done things to help me develop the skills that I really needed. And so the, I think the first things that I invested in, in education outside of weaving education or art making education was a course on how to use Instagram to market. Because that was a skill that I didn't have. I had been trying to do it on my own for a while. And, and you know, it was getting my workshops filled, but it wasn't what it needed to be to have a full-time business doing it. So marketing was the first place that I invested in and not like hiring somebody to market, but like hiring somebody to teach me how to market. I think that's a really important distinction because, you know, I hope to come to a place one day where I can bring in other people to like help me run aspects of my business, that I'm not as good at, but you know, marketing and copywriting, they are skills that you have to figure out if you want to have a business online.
How long have you been doing this full time?
Full time. It'll be two two years full time in May. So it was part-time on weekends, you know, or I was working for a bit quitting my job and then going and learning something.
So what was the last job that you did part-time?
I was working at a non-profit doing like operations and strategy type things. So that was actually a really great experience because it gave me a chance to learn skills like running capital campaigns and how to reach people and how to be a good community leader. So yeah, I'm really thankful that I had a job working for a nonprofit beforehand because I learned a lot of things that made it lot easier for me to start my business. I'll say that.
Ah, well done! You know speaking with you, I can really see all the hard work that you have put in to get to where you are now. And I think that's what I wanted people, and myself, to know. You just have to keep going no matter what; just pick yourself up and just continue.
Yeah, I mean, things always go wrong, something always doesn't work out or there's some detail I missed or something I didn't even know, I didn't know yet. And so that can be discouraging, but you know, I think it's like, does your desire to make a living as an artist outweigh any sort of struggles that come along with it too. And for me they have. Every time I've hit a crossroad, it's like, “Okay, do I really want to try something else? Do I really want to go out there and get like a nine to five job?” And I'd rather have the hard times doing what I love than to do something else.
And are you able to switch off because when you do your own thing and I think, especially when you love it, you find yourself sometimes working through the night? Would you say you've got a good balance? As with the question “play or work?” at the start, you said, “…my work is play…”
It's interesting. And I've definitely been experimenting with that and how that feels to me. And I think we're all different and need different things, but for me, it's like last year I practiced working nine to five and then trying to go home and turn it off and keeping a really regular schedule. And I just found that that really didn't encourage my creativity. And while that was nice because I was keeping regular hours and I could go home and have a life outside of that, it didn't work for me. So I tried that and it's not for me. And so, yes, it's really hard to turn it off. I do try to keep weekends totally off to have that balance. But as far as during the week goes, I let my creativity kind of run my schedule and that works for me. So I don't really turn it off that much during the week, unless I have like a date night planned with my husband or I'm doing something else. But I think that kind of drive is also just really necessary for getting a business off the ground. Maybe in the future, I will feel different and want to have better boundaries around my work, but I don't know that I really want like a quote unquote work-life balance, at least at the moment, I don't need it.
““And it’s like, if I allow the piece, the colours and my gut to show me what needs to happen, it turns out a lot better. And the best work I’ve ever made, is pieces where I just let my gut tell me what to do next, and took it moment by moment.””
There is a lot of strength in saying no. And again, it does fall back on to confidence, doesn't it? Having the confidence and just feeling okay in yourself. Because I think that also manifests in underselling and there's a lot of artists, like you said, a lot of new artists who are selling things really, really cheap, and again, I find a lot of people want hand made but don’t want to pay for it. So again, how did you discover what the right price for your work was? Was that a journey as well?
Right. Pricing is a whole thing. It's not easy. And my advice to people just starting out and trying to price their work is, look at what other people are charging, look at everybody's and if you see anybody who makes anything relatively similar to what you make, look at their pricing and base it off that. You can always raise your prices later. But you know, also, do the math, and see if it's worth your time or not. Think of what your goals are.
When I was just starting, I definitely wasn't charging as much as I do now. But you know, you have to start somewhere for people to buy it. If you're not an expert yet, you're not going to come out charging expert prices as that's not going to do anyone any favours. So it's definitely a balance; you don't want to undercharge, but you want to be competitive with what's out there in the market. And then, as more people start coming to you, naturally you can raise your prices. But yeah, pricing is difficult and it takes some practice. And also you can experiment with different price points and see.
One thing that I found really helpful that I used to do a lot, haven't done this recently, but I used to do these art auctions on my stories. If I had work that wasn't selling, I would post it to my stories and I would, you know, set a starting bid and just kind of see what my audience wanted to pay for it. And keeping that data has really helped me be able to price my work.
Would you sell it at the price or is it just like to get an idea?
Yeah. I first did it when I was clearing out my studio. I was moving studios (I've been in the same building, but I've been in a couple of different spaces here) and I was trying to clear out my work. And so I had a lot of old work that I really wasn't looking for a specific amount. I just wanted to see it go to someone's home. And so that was a really helpful starting point, to put it out there and see what people wanted to pay. And by setting a starting bid, it's okay. You know, if I'm really uncomfortable making less than $75 for this, then fine, set that bid at 75.
““Every day it was a reminder that I am an artist and that I am a Weaver and that I am working towards something good. And, and so I wouldn’t get down on myself as much that I wasn’t where I wanted to be yet.””